How to Get People Excited About California's Future w/Cam Wiese

It’s a big day here at the California Future Society - we’ve officially become a multimedia production! At the encouragement of Cam, my first interview guest and long-time supporter, I branched out and recorded an interview. I’ll see you at the top of the charts, Governor Newsom.

Going forward, I plan to alternate between writing and interviews. I’ll always post them here, so you can always find them in your inbox.

My vision for the interviews remains the same as my writing - to connect with people who care about California’s future and help paint a bold, positive vision of what the state could become. Cam has been thinking about how to get people excited about the future for awhile, so he was a natural first guest to start with.

The full transcript is below. If you have any guest suggestions of who you’d like to see me interview, send me an email!

Jarrett Catlin: I’m excited to talk to you, Cam! You are the reason I'm doing these conversations. I've been writing and thinking about the future of California, and then you were so encouraging to just have conversations. You talked about your own positive experiences talking to other people. And when I think about positively thinking about the future, getting excited about what the future can bring, you are one of the people that pops into mind. So as we get into it, just to start off, just wanted to say thank you—grateful and excited for this.

Cameron Wiese: Dude, I'm glad you're doing it. It's fun to see ideas grow from a conversation to action. And then we'll be talking about this in three years when I've got this top-secret World's Fair project up and running and you're crushing the podcast front—we’ll be celebrating. We’ll have a celebratory… I don’t know, what’s the trendy thing now? Kombucha?

Jarrett Catlin: Something. Yeah, I’m still drinking beer to celebrate.

Excited to talk about your work and also just have some conversations about what California means to you and your hopes for the future of it. But before we dive in, for anyone who’s not familiar with you—who are you and what do you do?

Cameron Wiese: I'm here because a good friend invited me onto his podcast. My name's Cameron Wiese. I started and run the World's Fair Company, which is an organization devoted to: one, championing the legacy of the once-great World's Fair; two, through media, events, and experiences, championing the ideas and values that formed the great World's Fairs; and three, shaping the future—reviving and reimagining the World’s Fairs in the United States and eventually around the world. All of my life is focused on this one mega-event we used to host that everyone’s forgotten about, and it boggles my mind that we’re not doing these anymore.

Jarrett Catlin: Yeah, and people should read your founding essay—it talks about the importance of the World's Fair. One thing I wanted to talk to you about is how the Fair created environments that got people excited about the future—not just in a technological sense, but socially too. So I’d love to talk about that. You’ve been focused on this for a few years now. To start off: What does it take to get people excited about the future? And what are some of the challenges?

Cameron Wiese: Yeah, it’s a good question. The way I think about it—okay, this is kind of an academic framework, which I’m usually skeptical of, being a startup guy—but it’s helpful. It’s called the “hope framework.” In order for an individual to have hope for the future, there are three necessary ingredients: a goal (where we want to go), a pathway (how we get there), and agency (believing that you personally can walk that path). It applies to inspiration too. You have to have a vision—maybe it’s getting in shape, or moving to a new city, or curing a disease, or building something new—and once you have that vision, you can work backwards from it. But broadly speaking, this is the role of science fiction, stories, and even art.

Let me show you something—these are two pieces of art from the 1915 World's Fair in San Francisco. One shows Hercules opening the Panama Canal. The other is a California bear over a destroyed city, with the word “undaunted.” It’s like: wow, humans are capable of incredible things. You should be thinking differently. What if we did have that?

Jarrett Catlin: That’s great. And that first piece—seeing a path forward—is so constrained by what people think is possible. In an era when we struggle to build things, when systems favor the status quo, when high-speed rail gets promised and never delivered, or when homes are promised and not built—it shortens your imagination. So you mentioned sci-fi. Are there other inputs or sources that expand your horizon of what’s possible?

Cameron Wiese: Yeah, I think movies are a big one. Everyone talks about Starfleet Academy from Star Trek being in the Presidio. That 2009 Chris Pine scene where you see the Golden Gate Bridge and this beautiful futuristic campus—it’s like, I know where that is, and I can imagine building something like that. Or take the movie Her. Everyone talks about it because of AI now, but the way it was set in a future LA that felt familiar—it was distant but not unrecognizable. It helps you wrap your mind around what’s possible.

Jarrett Catlin: Yeah, it’s just familiar enough to make you feel like, “Hey, this could be real.”

Cameron Wiese: Exactly. Here in San Francisco, there’s a gas station down the block that’s been waiting to be developed. It’s probably caught in red tape. People see it and think: I don’t want a car wash here. But then what will go here? And that uncertainty leads people to say no. People make up stories—“It’s going to be a big box store,” or “It’ll ruin the neighborhood.” If you can get everyone visualizing the same thing—“Here’s what the homes will look like, here are the shops”—you’re having a grounded conversation. The imagination gap is a huge hurdle.

In terms of media: there’s not a ton that inspires a near-future imagination. Blogs like Packy McCormick’s, or Casey Handmer writing about California and terraforming Nevada, or outlets like Freethink Media—those help. Ashlee Vance is doing great interviews and storytelling around builders. That stuff is a good start. I’d love more experiential storytelling, obviously—I’m biased—but we need more than content. Our feeds are so fragmented. The goal is to bring people into a shared experience where we’re looking at the same future together.

Jarrett Catlin: Yeah, and that brings us to the quote from your essay I love: “The digital dominance of the 21st century has sorted us into our own tailored versions of online reality. We drown in ads and information. It’s overwhelming, noisy and ephemeral. It’s hard to have a simple conversation, let alone align the globe on a future worth building.” So how does the World’s Fair solve this?

Cameron Wiese: Yeah. The World’s Fair, when it really took off in the 1850s through the 1960s, was a place where people from all over could gather—try new foods, see inventions, experience new cultures. One of my favorite stories is the 1893 Chicago World’s Fair: 27.5 million people attended, a third of the U.S. population at the time. No planes, no cars—just trains, wagons, and foot.

And they saw electricity for the first time. They stepped into a temporary city lit by light bulbs. It was magical. Today, we live mostly online, and we can’t agree on reality—especially when it comes to innovation. A fair puts people in the same room, hearing the same story. Take the 1939 Futurama ride from GM: it showed a model of the city of the future, with highways and mobility. Tens of millions of people saw it. It created a shared vision, and laid the groundwork for future infrastructure. That’s missing now.

Jarrett Catlin: I didn’t know about Chicago. A third of the country—wow. And you’re right, there’s something unique about a spectacle. I was thinking about how 93% of the country watched the moon landing. Imagine that happening today.

Cameron Wiese: Yeah, even with SpaceX, people tune in. But the power of sharing that moment in-person is unmatched. It’s not just a rocket—it’s proof of what humans are capable of. The future becomes real when you see it, hear from the people building it, and feel like you could be a part of it. That’s what inspires more people to try.

Jarrett Catlin: Well, let’s talk about that and start turning the conversation toward California. My writing—my passion—is trying to get people to not only articulate a positive vision of what the state could be, but also to get people excited about it, to share that vision. There are two realities in California.

There’s the excitement you see in tech. The world’s most creative, innovative designers, engineers, content creators—they're all out here, pushing the envelope. Companies like Boom, bringing back supersonic jets. SpaceX. All of that. But at the same time, housing continues to become more unaffordable. The state’s politics are dysfunctional. The state population is shrinking. People are fleeing for cost-of-living concerns. There’s this duality: a thriving private sector, and a struggling public sector. So how would you get people excited about the future of California, at a time when there are strongly mixed feelings?

Cameron Wiese: The system’s clearly broken and we need radical change to fix anything. I think there’s almost this learned helplessness in California—“It is what it is, and I can’t do anything about it.” One, that’s the wrong attitude. And two, we’re seeing that start to shift. In San Francisco, for a while that was the attitude. But then you had a group like GrowSF come along—saying, “Hey, we want to live here, we want the city to be beautiful, we want to fix these problems.” They looked at the root causes and asked, “How do we fix them?”

They started taking action, and they've been relatively successful. And they'll keep being successful because people want to live in nice places. They don’t want to deal with homelessness, drugs on the street, or crime. They want their small businesses to thrive. They want the economy to be good. They want to be safe. I just don’t think people know that’s possible.

So when you see someone do it, like GrowSF, it gives you permission to believe again. And this is where art, experiences, and media come in. What does a reimagined, thriving San Francisco look like? There’s a great short story by Charlie Jane Anders called Skins. It’s set in a dystopic SF where people wear AR glasses that overlay beauty onto a broken city. Eventually, they start building the things they’re seeing in AR in real life—because they’ve visualized it. That changes everything. You don’t always need permission. Sometimes you just start. And yes, sometimes that means you plant a tree and the city tells you you owe a fine—but that’s a separate problem.

Jarrett Catlin: Yeah. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Streets for All in LA? They’re a pedestrian and bike advocacy group. They actually passed a ballot measure recently to force the city to implement its own plan for safer, more bikeable streets. LA had already published a bike plan, then just didn’t do anything with it. So Streets for All ran a full campaign to make the city do what it said it would.

It’s that classic dynamic—you do something, then others realize, “Hey, we can do that too.” GrowSF is the same way. And what I love about them is how tactical they are. Their voter guide is crystal clear: here’s what to do in this election, check these boxes. It makes reform practical and actionable.

Cameron Wiese: Yeah, they do a great job. I think we’re in a place right now where we need more common sense. Start in your city. You could run for district supervisor in SF or LA. You can actually change stuff. It's wild that we're at a point where “common sense” is a bold idea—but here we are.

And once we shift the political culture statewide to be about results and efficacy, then we can pursue the big, bold visions. High-speed rail. New cities. I’d love SF to look like San Fransokyo from Big Hero 6—thriving, cool, dense. San Francisco should have three million people living there. There’s no reason we shouldn’t be thriving. California’s the fifth largest economy in the world, and yet we have all these problems. We have this blessing of abundance, and we’re squandering it.

There’s a huge opportunity for people to say: “I’m tired of it. I’m not going to take it anymore. I’m going to build the California I want to live in.” It’s a generational challenge we get to take on.

Jarrett Catlin: Talk about that. Tell me your vision of the California Dream. You moved here—what does California mean to you? What does it represent to the world when it’s at its best?

Cameron Wiese: I grew up moving all over the place, but I always wanted to go to California. Why? Because that’s where things were happening. In middle school, I was into film—I wanted to go to LA to be a producer. Later, I got into tech, and that meant going to Silicon Valley. California was where the action was.

It wasn’t about status. It wasn’t the old-money hierarchy of New York. California was the frontier. It was possibility. You could go build something. That’s what drew me here.

Now, unfortunately, California has become the opposite of that. It’s stagnation, high taxes, and dysfunction. But there’s still a deeply compelling narrative we can tap into: restore the California Dream. It’s the last bastion of the American Dream. America says, “Come here and make something of yourself.” California says, “Do it bigger. Do it wilder. Do it sooner.”

Jarrett Catlin: “California is America, only more so,” right? A concentrated dose of the American Dream.

Cameron Wiese: Exactly.

Jarrett Catlin: Let’s talk about how you make a positive vision of California tangible. I was having dinner with someone from CalYIMBY recently. We were talking about Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson’s upcoming book Abundance—how it might shape the conversation for Democrats.

He was saying that housing is an easier pitch than abundance. Everyone gets: rent’s high, build more homes, prices go down. It’s simple. But abundance as a general idea? It’s more abstract. It lands with think tank types, but doesn’t always resonate with average people. Do you agree? And if you were tasked with putting on an “Abundance Fair” to get people excited, how would you do it?

Cameron Wiese: I think he’s right. I’ve spent years talking about the World’s Fair. Some people light up—they remember a story their grandmother told, or they’ve read about it and want to go. Others say, “What’s a World’s Fair?” and you start explaining and their eyes glaze over. It’s too much.

Abundance is similar. You can say, “Your dollar will go farther. Rent will be cheaper. Your food will be higher quality. Life gets better.” But the word doesn’t always land. Intellectualizing abundance is great for policy. But most people care about their lived experience. If the sidewalks are cracked, trash isn’t picked up, the coffee shop down the street is boarded up—it doesn’t feel like abundance.

People want to know: how is my day-to-day life going to improve?

We have to make it easier for people to create. Let them test ideas, build things, open shops. That entrepreneurial spirit is key. When people have the freedom to experiment, the best stuff gets built. That’s what abundance really is.

Jarrett Catlin: Yeah, I like that idea—abundance as a catalyst for human creativity. It’s always easier to get people excited about making what they already have better. YIMBYism clicks because we all live in homes. Cheaper rent is easy to sell. Energy too cheap to meter? Same thing—we all pay electricity bills. But I like that thread of creativity. That abundance unlocks more expression, more experimentation.

Let’s go deeper on the builder community, which you’re part of. I think builders express some of the most frustration in California. They know what’s possible—they’re doing impossible things like catching rockets with chopsticks. But then they hit a wall trying to build housing or infrastructure.

What does the California Dream look like from the builder’s perspective? How do we make that dream real?

Cameron Wiese: There’s a split: the world of bits (software) and the world of atoms (physical goods, infrastructure). Most innovation has gone into bits because there are fewer restrictions. You can build a new app right now. No one’s stopping you.

But the world we actually live in is the world of atoms. That’s where abundance should show up. And that’s where builders in California run into friction—housing, energy, water, mobility. It’s expensive. It’s bureaucratic. You need lobbyists. There’s this whole parallel industry just to navigate the state.

A lot of those people say, “Screw it, I’ll move to Austin or Florida.” But we need to bring that experimental energy back here. Let people build. See what works. That’s how progress happens.

Jarrett Catlin: I was at Valar Atomics earlier today—they’re working on small modular nuclear reactors to produce clean hydrocarbons. Talking to folks there, you realize how deep the political awareness runs in hard tech. They know exactly what red tape they’re up against. If you're building with atoms, you run into policy constraints immediately. Especially in sectors like nuclear, where an entire generation of innovation has been stalled.

Cameron Wiese: Yeah. And that’s what frustrates me. Builders are the lifeblood of the American economy. The house you’re in? Someone built that. It wasn’t a policy that made it happen—it was a person. The fewer builders we support, the fewer things get built. Lower the barrier. Say: “You want to build something? Go.”

These people are the ones who make life better for everyone.

Jarrett Catlin: That ties into something I’ve been thinking about—how do you restore public trust that the things being built by startups and tech are good for people? There’s bipartisan skepticism of tech right now. Tech billionaires are not seen as trusted messengers. But in the past, with the World’s Fairs, private sponsors like GM contributed to public experiences that had clear spillover benefits. How do we recapture that spirit?

Cameron Wiese: Great question. This is exactly what happened in 1933 in Chicago. After the Great Depression, people were deeply skeptical of business and industry. But industry was also how we were going to get out of that crisis—by building, manufacturing, innovating. So the fair reframed business in a human light: “How does this help you?”

People don’t care about abstract science or big corporate ambitions. They want to know: how will this improve my life?

We can tell those stories again—through forums, events, and yes, a modern World’s Fair. Let’s reimagine how we explain AI—not as Her or iRobot or dystopia—but as the thing that helps you learn, helps you create, helps your kid get a better education. VR could help you visualize your city’s future. AI could help you level up skills. That’s the story we need to tell.

Jarrett Catlin: Let’s jam more on AI. You mentioned democratizing access to education. I think translation services are cool. Health care too—both in terms of breakthrough research and basic services. Neuralink is obviously not pure AI, but adjacent. What else gets you excited?

Cameron Wiese: Yeah. I think what’s going to happen is that a lot of smart people who used to focus on the digital world will shift to the physical world. Because that’s where the opportunity is—and where the impact is.

Material science is huge. Better plastics. New building materials. That changes everything. Same with biotech, health, energy, imaging tools. AI becomes a multiplier on all of that. It enables scientists to do more, faster. And when that happens in the physical world? That’s where you get real transformation. Because let’s be honest—our world today doesn’t look that different from 1970, if you take away the screens. That’s a problem. I’m excited to see that change.

Jarrett Catlin: Yeah. Same way the PC saved people from manual computation, AI might save people from cognitive bottlenecks. “Bicycle for the mind” becomes a motorcycle.

Cameron Wiese: Yes. Exactly. Motorcycle for the mind. Love that.

Jarrett Catlin: Let’s end here. It’s a Friday. You’re at happy hour. You’ve got your beer or your kombucha. You’re feeling good. Looking out over the San Francisco sunset. What’s a dream you have for California in your lifetime? Big or small—what would make you feel like: “Yeah, we did it”?

Cameron Wiese: Two things. One, I’m really excited about O’Neill cylinders—space habitats that create artificial gravity and allow you to live in earth-like conditions in space. Think Interstellar, that donut station at the end. I’m not trying to escape Earth, but I love the idea that we offload industry to space, clean up Earth, and expand human possibility.

But for California? I want to feel the way people felt in 1933 when construction began on the Golden Gate Bridge. Something impossible. Something people said couldn’t be done. But a few people said, “No—we need this.” And they made it happen. In four years.

Today, the suicide nets on the Golden Gate took as long as the bridge itself. That’s a tragedy.

I want a culture where we say: “Let’s build it. Let’s try. And if it doesn’t work? We’ll try something else.” I want to live in a place where people believe in the future, are excited about it, and feel like they have a role to play in making it real.

Jarrett Catlin: I can’t think of a better note to end on. How can people follow your work?

Cameron Wiese: I’m on X at @CAMWIESE. My DMs are generally open. If you want to chat about the World’s Fair, the future of California or the US, or building anything we talked about—hit me up.

Jarrett Catlin: Thanks so much.